Chase has claimed that it only “aimed at” account holders who were making little progress on paying off their previously promised “fixed APR Until the balance is paid in full” loans, e.g., people who were only paying the minimum. The overarching point in this post is not to be confused with the idea that these account holders should be required to pay more than the minimum; even if that is all someone has been paying, that behavior is consistent with meeting his or her obligation to Chase, faithfully, and fully. Rather, I will add further emphasis to earlier posts wherein I discussed being an exception to this “only paying the minimum” claim, personally, by demonstrating that others have been paying more than the minimum, too.
Given that various account holders have attempted to negotiate with Chase, the responses serve to demonstrate that Chase is at best providing a flimsy excuse and justification, regarding its “only paying the minimum,” claim. This is on top of the fact that it is insulting the intelligence and faithfulness of its very best account holders (i.e., “most Valued Cardmembers“), who were paying what they were required to pay, on time (by using a “these are deadbeat laggards, slow-paying us, and in this economy they deserved this,” excuse).
This is the thanks we get for meeting our obligations faithfully, a portrayal before the media that suggests we were not?
Accordingly, I would like to present several more exceptions beyond my own account:
Here’s one from Rip-off Report #388782:
“For over two years, I have regularly paid above the minimum….I can testify as others have stated here, they seem to bundle payments together into a single month… payments made on 9/4 and 10/1 were placed into a single month, as were payments made 10/16 and 11/01.”
From my3cents:
“I have ALWAYS paid on time, and have even paid above the minimum due.”
A comment by “Susan wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:36 PM” to an article published by the Delaware Business Ledger:
“As you can calculate, I was paying way more than the minimum payment and had never been late at any time. I have an excellent credit rating and feel as though I am being targeted by Chase as a good payer and therefore forced to pay more to make up for their lack in judgment in others. “
Comment by Julie of Racine WI (02/17/09); this was on a Wa Mu account, now owned by Chase:
“I have not had a late fee on any of my credit cards and have paid more than the minimun [sic] each month.”
Tony of Unknow CA (02/14/09):
“Just like Maria of Perth Amboy NJ, I pay more than double my minimum every month so I didn’t check the minimum last month.”
Karen of Phila PA (02/14/09):
“My payments are always on time and are at least the minimum amount. I am completely stressed out and this is dangerously increasing my high blood pressure, as I am in fear I will not be able to meet the new payment demands.”
Pat of Sewell NJ (02/13/09):
“I am 58 yrs old and have always had good credit and have never been late on any kind of payment. I have been paying my chase [sic] payment early every month and always pay a little extra.”
Tony of South Bend IN (02/12/09):
“have always over paid minimum and never late.”
Steve of Hillsboro OR (02/11/09):
“I have paid religiously on this account. I pay more than the minumum [sic].”
Rebecca of Fort Collins CO (02/09/09):
“I have (had) a credit card with Chase with a promotional rate of 2.99% that I made on time payments on and for more than the payment due since opening the account.”
Hummm, there are evidently so many people paying the more than the minimum commenting on this one ConsumerAffairs.com post that if I keep going (I’ve only made progress about ten percent of the way down this page using my scroll bar), I am going to need a new pair of eyeglasses.
At VisionCredit.org:
Steve, on January 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm:
“I’m in the same boat – took their offer, I pay more than the minimum on time every month on every card I have, and *WHAM*! Chase decides that I’m just not profitable enough for them.”
Greg, on January 14th, 2009 at 11:46 pm:
“I’ve been paying several times the minimum payment every month for years.”
Jay, on January 16th, 2009 at 1:08 pm:
“My family has never missed a payment on anything and we always pay more than the minimum.”
By virtue of my post title here, I have suggested that someone at Chase “must need new eyeglasses,” because Chase’s aim was obviously extremely poor. However, that assessment has by now proved to be, much too kind. As a reminder, I have previously noted that an account holder could have been erroneously identified by a computer algorithm that may have accidentally flagged an account (wouldn’t speak well for software used by banks, being so inaccurate). But since account holders are still being forced into the impacted group after bringing forth their arguments that they were paying more than the minimum before “human beings” at Chase, to no avail, then that possible explanation for such a poor aim has failed.
I’ll bet that if I had a few hundred more hours, I could search the Internet and find thousands upon thousands more examples like the ones above (this would also be a nice little “discovery” exercise in any of the several class action lawsuits that are arising).
Chase’s excuses are divisive and underhanded at best (and as I have asserted elsewhere based on a clearly established document trail, Chase has been caught in a number of deceptions).
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on Feb 21st, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I was disappointed to review several documents from Chase and see that they went so far as to admit they were raising rates because the customer was not ‘profitable’ enough. Isn’t this what long-term economic models are for? If your present terms are not going to remain profitable for as long as you would like them to be, you don’t offer them, period. But Chase did. Now they’re rescinding the offers to everybody, even their own employees. That’s why I think this is dangerously close to predatory lending – it puts Chase employees in the position to either shut up and take it or risk losing their jobs. How fair is that?
on Feb 21st, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Hi Nicholas,
There’s nothing fair about any of this, and you are correct, market conditions are not part of the “bargain” that people made with Chase in accepting these promotional offers. You might notice that as various excuses are attacked (such as these account holders were only paying the minimum — a subject that my post addressed), its spokespersons come up with new ones. Those employees who do lose their jobs are also exactly who I would want to talk to, as a class action lawyer! Thanks for commenting. Please “spread the word.”
on Feb 21st, 2009 at 5:15 pm
This post contains the first mention I’ve seen (across several websites) about the big elephant in the room that nobody seems to see. To wit…
“…(wouldn’t speak well for software used by banks, being so inaccurate)…
The amount you get charged for “Finance Charge Due To Periodic Rate” is totally dependent on the AverageDailyBalance… a value calculated “behind the scenes”. What would your guess be as to “How many people check the accuracy of the AverageDailyBalance value shown on their statements?” My guess would be zero.
“Who’s got time? Besides … I they wouldn’t dare.”
I have a question: Is there any government agency that inspects, certifies, and monitors the software used by financial institutions… in particular credit card companies… to insure the correctness and accuracy of calculated values used in the calculation of finance charges? If OUR government is NOT PROTECTING us from an industry that has been shown to be prone to screwing us… don’t you think they should?
I have spoken with the OCC about this. To their knowledge… the software used by financial institutions is not inspected, certified or monitored. After all… they wouldn’t cheat you… even if they knew that nobody ever checked their calculations. HUH?
That’s the thrust of my comment. If you’re curious as to why such a question would even enter my mind… read on:
Understanding that the ADB is the number that determines the amount of the finance charge… I monitor the change in the ADB. Without going into details… in February 2008… I observed a huge anomaly… and before drawing any conclusions… requested a copy of their calculations of the ADB for 2 months preceding and 2 months following the anomaly. I wanted to see from what numbers they were calculating this critically important number… because something was obviously wrong. Notice that your statement does not specifically show the actual amount owing from your original debt… only your opening balance which is not the same value.
Over a 2-month period… I spoke with Customer Service Reps… Supervisors… and Managers. Each said that… although their collection of “canned” letters did not include such a report… they would request a “custom” correspondence be prepared and sent to me. A few weeks following each conversation… I received the exact same canned letter — NOT the requested calculation. I kept receiving the exact same description of “How we calculate your ADB” that is printed on the back of every statement.
During the last conversation I had about this anomaly (March 2008)… a Manager told me that such a report could not be provided “BECAUSE IT’S ALWAYS MOVING”. I gave up trying… but continued to monitor the data provided on my statements.
Chase stonewalled me. They refused to show me the data they used to calculate how much they charged me. Why would they do that? With certainly… I can assure you… it’s not because they can’t.
Examine your January and February statement. These changes were to be “effective January 1, 2009″.
My January statement show that my account was charged a $10 SERVICE CHARGE* FINANCE CHARGE * on December 29. In the FINANCE CHARGE section… the $10 appeared on the “Purchases” line in the “Transaction Fee” column. There was a new line labeled “Convenience check”… with the same variable APR as the “Purchase” line… showing an ADB and a “Finance Charge Due To Periodic Rate” of 2¢. This charge was based on the obviously bogus ADB. Upon questioning the date of the charge, the bogus ADB… and the erroneous 2¢ finance charge… I was moved up to the “Manager” who… after agreeing that my observations were correct… said “And how may I help you today?” How ’bout correcting the errors you arrogant dummy? After being on hold for 15 minutes… the “Manager” told me it had been corrected… “Humph! 2¢”, she said.
My February statement showed a “Finance charge adjustment of 6¢”. “WOW!”, I thought… I’ve just tripled my investment!!! They tried to stiff me for 2¢ and once called out on it… credited my account for 6¢ – “TREBLE THE DAMAGES” without even filing suit.
I also noticed on my February statement… there was nothing shown on the “Convenience check” line. It appeared as though they decided to not add a finance charge on the $10 finance charge… which they list as a purchase (subject to a much higher APR)… which I was told would accumulate until the lower APR balances were paid off. Seems they changed their minds… or did they?
My account has both 3.99% and 4.99% balances… and my payment is first applied to the finance charges… and the remainder is applied to my 3.99% balance. In particular… the 4.99% balance has not changed… nor should it change… until my 3.99% balance gets to zero.
For the past 36 months… the ADB for my 4.99% balance has fluctuated between 1502.78 and 1503.27… with an average of 1503.04. (The fluctuation in the ADB is due to the interest which is compounded daily.) Nothing has changed. So tell me… why would my February statement show the ADB as 1506.58?
Please don’t tell me “it’s just a few pennies”.
People have gone to prison for diverting computer truncation and round-off errors (each less than a penny) into their personal accounts… accumulating millions of dollars.
A 75¢ accounting error led Clifford Stoll to discover that the KGB was hacking into our military computers… a discovery that resulted into an entire industry being built around computer security.
At the personal…it’s not the actual amount… it’s what the “error” means. Unlike people… computers do not have brain-farts. They do exactly what they are told to do. A computer “glitch” is the result of doing exactly what a human wrote into the software… with or without intent.
I repeat…
Is there any government agency that inspects, certifies, and monitors the software used by financial institutions… in particular credit card companies… to insure the correctness and accuracy of calculated values used in the calculation of finance charges? If OUR government is NOT PROTECTING us from an industry that has been shown to be prone to screwing us… don’t you think they should?
on Feb 21st, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Dear Vito,
Thank you for your comment, which I view as being far better articulated than my original remark. Frankly, relative to many posts (including my own) that simply express a great deal of distrust and displeasure, your observations, by comparison, are profound. I consider myself to be pretty meticulous and analytical (along with sometimes tending to “smart-off” in the direction of any authority figure I have ever crossed paths with — makes me good entrepreneurship material, but a poor worker-drone), but I must admit that I have never actually checked the veracity of ADB numbers.
Now, being that I am in an academic environment — not that I’d want to take it on personally because as you might be able to tell, I’m rather busy trying to wrestle with a monster-sized, mean and evil organization on some other basic issues, like a so-called “service charge” that “is a finance charge” — what you have suggested implies a study that would make a lot of statisticians I know grin with wonderment and want to know more. I am sure every one of them would appreciate your points about skimming an teeny, tiny amount off the top of billions of transactions and respond immediately with a knowing grin, without even conducting a study. I’m winking at you now, too, Vito — I get it!
Thank you very much for an outstanding comment! Take care.
on Mar 5th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
[...] This is my response (clearly demonstrating that Chase is spinning another misrepresentation before the media): http://www.changeinterms.com/2009/02/20/chase-aimed-at-account-holders-who-were-only-paying-the-mini... [...]
on Mar 15th, 2009 at 10:21 am
[...] It’s also not true relative to many other account holders; see the earlier post and analysis entitled, “Chase “aimed at” account holders who were only paying the minimum? Someone must need new eyeglas….” [...]
on Mar 17th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
[...] (legal, geographical, or technological) environment, waiting to be hacked, stolen, or misused. As Vito asked in a comment on the ChangeInTerms.com site, who regulates software used by [...]
on Mar 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
[...] article by Marshall Eckblad announced partial good news for those of us who Chase “aimed at,” but I have some things to say because although I appreciate the small victory, we’re [...]
on Apr 27th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
I got a GE CareCredit card because I have no insurance. That changed the terms on it every single month. it’s no interest for the first year, and starts out with something like ten percent It’s been about six months. i’ve never missed a payment but if i do the interest is up to 29 percent-so far- and rising. That will be from the time I first opened the account, so they’ll charge me on what I already paid off if I understand it correctly.
When i opened the bill to yet another change in terms i got mad. i wrote them that it’s bad faith, false advertising, and fraud. This is nothing like the original contract i signed and i suggest they put the terms back the way they were.
I’ll never use those vampires again. I only wanted to build credit and meanwhile spend the money on something useful.
They also let you opt out of selling your info, but reserve the right to share it with whoever they want. It is the most unfair credit card I’ve ever come across.
I tld them that recently i have been a victim of ID theft. I told them if they share my info i want to know with who first, and demanded to know with who already they have.
Don’t even bother to call-it’ll get you nowhere. Put it in writing and sue if you have to. Enough is enough with the nickel and diming us to death while they get rich skimming our hard earned pennies.
I explained that very thing to my friend when she let a slum developer cheat her out of a couple hundred dollars. i told her it’s not what the money is to you-it’s the vast amount they are stealing from the population at large.
This has to stop.
on Nov 1st, 2009 at 10:45 pm
[...] that you established, Chase. In numerous cases that I have documented they were paying, “more than the minimum.” Nevertheless, as I have discussed many times, this game of shifting blame and obfuscation [...]